This is the place where you can address anything that is not covered by the prompts above. What were some of the really good level two and level three questions that you came up with? In general, what do you think about Lord of the Flies?
38 comments:
Anonymous
said...
I found it ironic that Golding put so much religious symbolism into the book, but the boys never addressed God, Jesus, Cristianity, etc.. -princessbelle
Princessbelle, I think the reason he did that was to address the problem with 'addressing' the problem. People who are worried about religious subjects would get it, and those who were indifferent about the subject wouldn't be offended. ForgetRegret
I think ForgetRegret is right. I mean, those who realize he's speaking from a religious standpoint, are probably the ones that are either religious, or intelligent enough to not be offended by other beliefs.
Golding did put a lot of religious symbolism, but notice that he never really adressed it. He never told us what religion they were, or that Simon indicated the disciple, Simon-Peter. Clarke told us that, and if we had read this book on our own, we probably wouldn't think that there was a lot of religious symbolism in it at all. -Smiles:)
If Golding had included the boys praying or addressing God, then I think the book would have been ruined. If the boys had admitted that they needed help, then they would have admitted the gravity of their situation. Jack's tribe, especially, would not have wanted to do that. Also, Golding wanted the boys as isolated and alone as possible. God might have been a comfort to them, even brought them together, and Golding didn't seem interested. -coolblogname
Hey did you notice towards the end of the book, the boys started elevating the beast to an almost god-like level? They left it sacrifices. They assumed that the beast could take different forms (a shape shifting type god). They chanted about it around the fire.
So, although Golding didn't really mention "God" or "Christianity" by literally writing the words down in the book, he hinted those themes strongly. -gardenstate
Golding had pretty much everything symbolized with some kind of religious aspect. It really makes me wonder about what he thinks about religion and why exactly he had everything relate to it.
NEW TOPIC~ I find it weird that Golding made the boys on the island only twelve years old. I think it's to show us that people are born messed up, and don't stand a chance to be good people. But what would've happened if they were older and had more experience? -Smiles:)
Coolblogname, I completely agree. If he would have said "The boys would kneel down right before bed and pray," the book would have been ruined. There would have been a lot of controversy and it would not have been considered one of the greatest books. He did a great job with the symbolism. -ForgetRegret
Smiles:), If they had been older it would have been completely different. They would have been more bound on getting home then hunting. AND! They wouldn't be killing each other =P -ForgetRegret
coolblogname- Good point, i can understand that that not allowing themselves to accept the gravity of the situation by not admitting that they needed help from a higher being..but many people take comfort from God in hard situations... How do you think this would have affected the out come of the book? Would rememering christian teachings (that im sure many had grown up with) changed the violent outcome fot the story? -princessbelle
Smiles :)- i don't think that's necessarily a big factor because i think the whole reasoning of why the boys were messed up is they're nurture growing up. they never got nurtured most likely being boys one, but also during a war, their fathers could have been gone, and their mothers are just trying ot raise a man, so i think not matter what age it'll be more similar than different. Pochahontas
You're exactly right, Beelzebub (The Lord of the Flies) does become the deity of Jack's tribe, while Simon (who represents positive religion) is ignored at first and then eventually killed. They do have a lot of religious ceremonies around their evil god--Golding is addressing the issue of religion without ever directly talking about it, which is typical of the way he treats all of the major themes in this book.
Hey! So i agree with smiles:) i think it was funny that he used so much religous symbolism but you wouldn't really think the boys are very religous from how they first act when they get there and they are still pretty normal. ~Lil' Dork
princessbelle, I totally with you and how ironic it was that there was so much religious symbolism, but the boys never once said one thing about God. Strange....Golding, what with that? What are some thoughts as to why the boys didn't talk about God? -tickletight
Sorry Pochahontas, but I disagree. I don't think WHO raises you has an effect on how your going to be. I think it's the way your raised and nothing else. I mean I could have been raised by a very nurturing father, and still be a girly girl. Same goes for boys and there mothers. -ForgetRegret
I guess Golding probably put twelve year old boys on the island on purpose because he knew that, when you're that age, you can't really stand alone. You have to have parents and grown ups to guide you through what is right and what isn't.
i agree with ForgetRegret that it would be an entirely diffrent story if the boys were older. They would be way more responsible and handle things a lot better. I don't think they would care as much about chiefs and silly things like that, but more on getting food and being rescued.
forgetregret- I don't really agree, i think that who you become has everything to do with 1. WHO raises you and 2. the enviorment you are raised. I am a total daddy's girl and major girly girl but it has a lot
Princessbelle, I think if they had turned to God, the story would completely be ruined. I think people would over look it just as Simon (Jewish religion) was over looked and eventually killed. I think the book would have died out quite quickly. -ForgetRegret
I think that Lord of the Flies is a very morbid view of reality. People would react in the ways these boys did, because when it comes down to it people will do anything that they have to survive despite what we may believe we all would do what we perceive as necessary in a situation like the one on the island.
I think one of Golding's main themes is the lack of humans seeing the big picture. We are so nearsighted and don't consider what really matters in the long run. For just one example, all but Ralph and Piggy care about the signal fire.
i Deffinently will agree with... skittles, that if they would older their priority of surviving would have way higher. And that older kids actually know what to do in these situations, well they would have had kind of a idea of what to to more then 12 year olds.
PrincessCinderella<3, What I was saying is that, no matter WHO raises you doesn't play the biggest part. The way, and what environment you're raised in is the biggest impact. Not so much the person who rasies you. -ForgetRegret
I think you are underestimating our abilities as readers.i think most of the students in this class would have been able to pick up on the religious implications in the book, if not right away with the Lord of the Flies, but eventually when they start, like gardenstate said, "elevating the beast to an almost god-like level," at least I hope, since we are all honors students.
Smiles, i agree with you. clarke was the ont that told us about the religious aspect of the book and the symbols. if he hadnt i know i wouldnt have realized that they were references to religion.
I think that if there was more religious symobolism in the book, it would've ended the same, because in some religions (like in Africa) they sometimes sacrfice human beings just for the heck of it. I'm absolutely sure that that's the only religion that the twelve year old boys would've actually promoted. -Smiles:)
Barbie, I completely disagree. Just like Enmadre said, you're underestimating us as honors students. I think that even if Clarke didn't tell us they were religious symbols, would would have picked up on it after they started sacrificing thing to the beast. -ForgetRegret
I think that the book had to be done with young kids. Golding wanted people that were innocent when they came on to the island, and could slowly be lured into brutality. I think that is the book had been done with adults, they would have immediately fought over who was cheif. The violence would probably have intensified. Do you think that adults would still have had a beast? -coolblogname
"If human beings are fundamentally good, no government is necessary; if they are fundamentally bad, any government, being composed of human beings, would be bad also." -Fred Woodworth
forgetregret, I dont think that Golding was worried about offending people by addressing religion. I think that he wanted people to know that his characters were symbols to religious figures to get his point abot human nature accross. -princessbelle
Forget Regret, i disagree, maybe not WHO raises you but how you are raised can affect you. Not saying that you can't overcome your circumstances but it's a lot harder and it affects how you think, the trauma you experience can change your mind. Pocahontas
i think that the lord of the flies was a decent book but it deafly left out several details of what it could really be like on an island and it should have been more lengthy and more detailed such as the lifes of the boys and maybe even had a baby start there by itself without any outside force helping it in any way
38 comments:
I found it ironic that Golding put so much religious symbolism into the book, but the boys never addressed God, Jesus, Cristianity, etc..
-princessbelle
Princessbelle,
I think the reason he did that was to address the problem with 'addressing' the problem. People who are worried about religious subjects would get it, and those who were indifferent about the subject wouldn't be offended.
ForgetRegret
I think ForgetRegret is right. I mean, those who realize he's speaking from a religious standpoint, are probably the ones that are either religious, or intelligent enough to not be offended by other beliefs.
Enmadre
Golding did put a lot of religious symbolism, but notice that he never really adressed it. He never told us what religion they were, or that Simon indicated the disciple, Simon-Peter. Clarke told us that, and if we had read this book on our own, we probably wouldn't think that there was a lot of religious symbolism in it at all.
-Smiles:)
If Golding had included the boys praying or addressing God, then I think the book would have been ruined. If the boys had admitted that they needed help, then they would have admitted the gravity of their situation. Jack's tribe, especially, would not have wanted to do that. Also, Golding wanted the boys as isolated and alone as possible. God might have been a comfort to them, even brought them together, and Golding didn't seem interested.
-coolblogname
Hey did you notice towards the end of the book, the boys started elevating the beast to an almost god-like level?
They left it sacrifices.
They assumed that the beast could take different forms (a shape shifting type god).
They chanted about it around the fire.
So, although Golding didn't really mention "God" or "Christianity" by literally writing the words down in the book, he hinted those themes strongly.
-gardenstate
Golding had pretty much everything symbolized with some kind of religious aspect. It really makes me wonder about what he thinks about religion and why exactly he had everything relate to it.
-PrincessCinderella<3
NEW TOPIC~
I find it weird that Golding made the boys on the island only twelve years old. I think it's to show us that people are born messed up, and don't stand a chance to be good people. But what would've happened if they were older and had more experience?
-Smiles:)
Coolblogname,
I completely agree.
If he would have said "The boys would kneel down right before bed and pray," the book would have been ruined.
There would have been a lot of controversy and it would not have been considered one of the greatest books. He did a great job with the symbolism.
-ForgetRegret
Smiles:),
If they had been older it would have been completely different.
They would have been more bound on getting home then hunting. AND! They wouldn't be killing each other =P
-ForgetRegret
PrincessBelle-
I agree. It is wierd that the boys never really talked about religion or God. Considering the situation I know I would be talking about him a lot.
-sleepingbeauty<3
coolblogname-
Good point, i can understand that that not allowing themselves to accept the gravity of the situation by not admitting that they needed help from a higher being..but many people take comfort from God in hard situations...
How do you think this would have affected the out come of the book?
Would rememering christian teachings (that im sure many had grown up with) changed the violent outcome fot the story?
-princessbelle
Smiles :)-
i don't think that's necessarily a big factor because i think the whole reasoning of why the boys were messed up is they're nurture growing up. they never got nurtured most likely being boys one, but also during a war, their fathers could have been gone, and their mothers are just trying ot raise a man, so i think not matter what age it'll be more similar than different.
Pochahontas
Gardenstate--
You're exactly right, Beelzebub (The Lord of the Flies) does become the deity of Jack's tribe, while Simon (who represents positive religion) is ignored at first and then eventually killed. They do have a lot of religious ceremonies around their evil god--Golding is addressing the issue of religion without ever directly talking about it, which is typical of the way he treats all of the major themes in this book.
--Clarke
Hey!
So i agree with smiles:) i think it was funny that he used so much religous symbolism but you wouldn't really think the boys are very religous from how they first act when they get there and they are still pretty normal.
~Lil' Dork
princessbelle,
I totally with you and how ironic it was that there was so much religious symbolism, but the boys never once said one thing about God. Strange....Golding, what with that? What are some thoughts as to why the boys didn't talk about God?
-tickletight
Sorry Pochahontas, but I disagree.
I don't think WHO raises you has an effect on how your going to be.
I think it's the way your raised and nothing else.
I mean I could have been raised by a very nurturing father, and still be a girly girl. Same goes for boys and there mothers.
-ForgetRegret
Agreed Clarke.
And that's what makes this such a great book. It doesn't tell you what to think, but leaves in open to your own views.
-ForgetRegret
I guess Golding probably put twelve year old boys on the island on purpose because he knew that, when you're that age, you can't really stand alone. You have to have parents and grown ups to guide you through what is right and what isn't.
smileyface16
Clarke,
how would the story have been affected if religion had been addressed differently? If the boys had turned to God?
_princessbelle
i agree with ForgetRegret that it would be an entirely diffrent story if the boys were older. They would be way more responsible and handle things a lot better. I don't think they would care as much about chiefs and silly things like that, but more on getting food and being rescued.
-skittles
forgetregret-
I don't really agree, i think that who you become has everything to do with 1. WHO raises you and 2. the enviorment you are raised. I am a total daddy's girl and major girly girl but it has a lot
-PrincessCinderella<3
Princessbelle,
I think if they had turned to God, the story would completely be ruined.
I think people would over look it just as Simon (Jewish religion) was over looked and eventually killed.
I think the book would have died out quite quickly.
-ForgetRegret
I think that Lord of the Flies is a very morbid view of reality. People would react in the ways these boys did, because when it comes down to it people will do anything that they have to survive despite what we may believe we all would do what we perceive as necessary in a situation like the one on the island.
Belle
I think one of Golding's main themes is the lack of humans seeing the big picture. We are so nearsighted and don't consider what really matters in the long run. For just one example, all but Ralph and Piggy care about the signal fire.
-YourMom
i Deffinently will agree with... skittles, that if they would older their priority of surviving would have way higher. And that older kids actually know what to do in these situations, well they would have had kind of a idea of what to to more then 12 year olds.
Cobra Commander
PrincessCinderella<3,
What I was saying is that, no matter WHO raises you doesn't play the biggest part.
The way, and what environment you're raised in is the biggest impact.
Not so much the person who rasies you.
-ForgetRegret
-coolblogname
I think you are underestimating our abilities as readers.i think most of the students in this class would have been able to pick up on the religious implications in the book, if not right away with the Lord of the Flies, but eventually when they start, like gardenstate said, "elevating the beast to an almost god-like level," at least I hope, since we are all honors students.
Enmadre
Smiles,
i agree with you. clarke was the ont that told us about the religious aspect of the book and the symbols. if he hadnt i know i wouldnt have realized that they were references to religion.
~Barbie~
I think that if there was more religious symobolism in the book, it would've ended the same, because in some religions (like in Africa) they sometimes sacrfice human beings just for the heck of it. I'm absolutely sure that that's the only religion that the twelve year old boys would've actually promoted.
-Smiles:)
ForgetRegret,
"Human nature refers to what is in people but which they cannot study or work at achieving." -Xun Zi
(I just thought this illustrated your point fairly well!)
-gardenstate
Barbie,
I completely disagree.
Just like Enmadre said, you're underestimating us as honors students.
I think that even if Clarke didn't tell us they were religious symbols, would would have picked up on it after they started sacrificing thing to the beast.
-ForgetRegret
Gardenstate,
Much thanks!
I couldn't have said it better myself.
-ForgetRegret
I think that the book had to be done with young kids. Golding wanted people that were innocent when they came on to the island, and could slowly be lured into brutality. I think that is the book had been done with adults, they would have immediately fought over who was cheif. The violence would probably have intensified.
Do you think that adults would still have had a beast?
-coolblogname
"If human beings are fundamentally good, no government is necessary; if they are fundamentally bad, any government, being composed of human beings, would be bad also." -Fred Woodworth
-gardenstate
forgetregret,
I dont think that Golding was worried about offending people by addressing religion. I think that he wanted people to know that his characters were symbols to religious figures to get his point abot human nature accross.
-princessbelle
Forget Regret,
i disagree, maybe not WHO raises you but how you are raised can affect you. Not saying that you can't overcome your circumstances but it's a lot harder and it affects how you think, the trauma you experience can change your mind.
Pocahontas
i think that the lord of the flies was a decent book but it deafly left out several details of what it could really be like on an island and it should have been more lengthy and more detailed such as the lifes of the boys and maybe even had a baby start there by itself without any outside force helping it in any way
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